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Max Stirner
Philosopher
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public myers-briggs votes | (21/01/09 15:30) Helvetica: INTP |
(20/01/14 17:16) Tman: INTP |
(19/06/02 13:36) Teru Mikami: INTP |
(19/05/29 12:15) ItsyBitsyTeddyBear: INTP |
(19/01/23 10:08) phsc: INTP |
(18/11/23 10:10) tch: INTP |
(18/05/20 05:33) diobono: INTP |
public function votes | (21/01/09 15:30) Helvetica: INTP |
(20/03/02 10:38) Tman: INTP |
(19/01/23 10:08) phsc: INTP |
(18/11/30 23:42) tch: INTP |
public enneagram votes | (21/01/09 15:30) Helvetica: 5w4 |
(19/10/25 19:54) Tman: 5w4 |
(19/06/02 13:36) Teru Mikami: 5w4 |
(19/05/29 12:15) ItsyBitsyTeddyBear: 5w4 |
(19/01/23 10:11) phsc: 5w4 |
(18/11/23 10:11) tch: 5w4 |
(18/05/20 05:33) diobono: 5w4 |
public instinctual variant votes | (21/01/09 15:30) Helvetica: sp/sx |
(19/11/02 01:41) Tman: sp/sx |
(19/06/02 13:36) Teru Mikami: sp/sx |
(19/01/23 10:11) phsc: sp/sx |
(18/12/11 21:42) tch: sp/sx |
public tritype® votes | (21/01/15 12:46) Tman: 549 |
(21/01/09 15:30) Helvetica: 549 |
(19/10/25 19:55) phsc: 549 |
(18/12/11 21:43) tch: 54x |
public sociotype votes | (21/01/09 15:30) Helvetica: ILI |
(19/11/27 13:06) fleetingpetals: ILE |
(19/10/25 19:15) Tman: ILI |
(19/07/02 14:45) Diobono: ILI |
(19/07/01 05:27) fg: ILI |
(19/06/02 13:36) Teru Mikami: ILE |
(19/07/01 03:24) phsc: LII |
(18/12/11 21:40) tch: ILI |
public psychosophy votes | (20/06/12 18:12) Diobono: LFVE |
(20/02/23 13:21) tch: LEVF |
(20/06/12 16:25) phsc: LFVE |
public hexaco votes | (20/03/03 02:12) tch: HEXACO |
(19/10/16 17:19) phsc: HEXACO |
tch INxx 5w4 ILI![]() ![]() 2020-06-09 02:34:59am (post #8264) |
fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST![]() ![]() 2019-07-04 03:07:38pm (post #6560) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 09:41:01pm (post #6557) |
Diobono int 5w4 ili![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 09:40:08pm (post #6556) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 09:38:17pm (post #6555) |
Diobono int 5w4 ili![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 09:36:01pm (post #6554) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() They like try to get empirical data like talanov U start from personality and then up not viceversa" - diobono 10 seconds before saying quadras are retarded ![]() 2019-07-03 09:26:22pm (post #6553) |
DIobono int 5w4 ili![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 09:23:58pm (post #6552) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 09:17:55pm (post #6551) |
DIobono int 5w4 ili![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 09:15:25pm (post #6550) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() The duality of man ![]() 2019-07-03 09:09:24pm (post #6549) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() It's like here are 4 sociological structures that have existed since the dawn of time Retarded meta-sociology" - diobono 2 weeks ago ![]() 2019-07-03 09:07:04pm (post #6548) |
phsc ![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 08:37:22pm (post #6547) |
DIobono int 5w4 ili![]() I basically typed him based on the quadra values and i see no alpha values and he just seems to deny 'socio ti' principles, but i can see how he could be seen as 'libertarian right' in a poltical compass which sort of is nu age alpha quadra people ![]() 2019-07-03 08:32:00pm (post #6546) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() ILI Gulenko: "When in good physical shape, he is confident in himself, assertive, calls for decisive actions, however, it rarely comes to implementation. He needs to be prodded from outside, requires strong support. Absence of such support leads to demobilization and laziness. Direct aggression is detestable to him; he opposes it in every way. He cannot endure protracted confrontation – simply leaves or even falls ill. For his physical well-being engages in athletic types of sports – tries to build stamina and overcome his natural weakness, toughens himself. But to engage in this regularly he usually does not have enough willpower." "Does his work is accord with the established methods, slowly and scrupulously, going into all the specifications. Can be rigorous with details and meticulous to the point of pedantry. Professional activity and diligence are characteristic of him only within a formal system, where there is structure and regulation" "Cautious when making decisions. His position is that you need to run a little ahead of the game. Always chooses the safest course of action." ILI Stratiyevskaya: "The INTp respects strong, willful people, who know their goals and who do not cower before difficulties but rather act confidently, actively creating their path ahead. INTp's dual the ESFp (SEE) possesses precisely such qualities. The INTp does not attempt to take the lead himself, preferring to remain a figure "number two" – a "shadow" leader and adviser who supports a powerful patron." "Although making demands is precisely what is difficult for the INTp. He is a kind of person for whom it is difficult "to pull his will into his fist". The ILI doesn't know how to and doesn't like to subordinate someone else to his will. Neither will he suffer direct pressure applied to himself." "A typical state of the INTp is one of constant semi-relaxation. He prefers not to make excessive efforts and tries to expend his physical energy very economically. He won't invest more effort and strengths in anything over what is dictated by objective necessities, not even into the most captivating work. The ILI is not the type of person who will thoroughly apply himself, "wholly put himself out", solely on basis of enthusiasm. The ILI always seeks respect for his own labor and a worthy payment." ILI Reinin: "form, action, movement; suggestible function. “Do something with me”. The ILI easily puts on that state that people around want of him/her. Sometimes he/she simply dissolves in that image or state, and with a frequent change of states comes the effect of losing themselves. People of this type can hardly resist persuasion: when some activity is imposed on them, when they are pressed to do something, they are almost defenseless. It happens that Balzac 'unexpectedly' finds him/herself involved in a strange activity. People of this type often need an external push in order to do something. And, on the other hand, they are unable to resist this pressure. If a person of the opposite sex comes to a Balzac and says: “I am moving in, I will live with you”. – “Well, OK”. An ILI has even lower 'resistability' than an IEI. The latter at least pays attention to the aesthetics of the situation; the former does not manage to do even that. Perhaps, recognizing this trait in themselves, women of this type often produce an impression of being cold, aloof, difficult, and unapproachable. In this way they unconsciously create a maximum of personal distance." ILI makes sense ![]() 2019-07-03 07:59:43pm (post #6545) |
phsc ![]() I didn't say that all LIIs are anarchists I just said that it doesn't exclude the possibility of LII as an anarchist, as it makes a lot of sense with Se polr, but I agree with what you said about Ti, I also believe many LIIs aren't anarchists because LIIs many times are not interested in said field, I myself still prefer mathematics, physics or computer science to political science, and a lot of LIIs do the same, as well as I prefer metaphysics of logic in philosophy over something such as ethics, as many LII philosophers also did, and maybe if more were interested in said field there would be more anarchists, but this is just a possibility. Over Mises, I believe him to be accurate in many things, in my small conversation with you - which I will re-initiate after I read the work by Stiglitz you recommended which I didn't have the time to read yet - you mentioned how you don't believe that men are not guided by pragmatic rationality, if you did actually read Human Action, further on he explains what he means by that, about how we have different things we value, which fits as to what you said men follow which would be passion, also I am curious as to why you believe he is disconnected from truth, if you want me to explain what he means by that I can. And may I mention you're going off-topic from the original topic being about Stirner's type and that if we are going to get into a conversation about economics or political science I would prefer to wait until I have the time to read said work by Stiglitz for a more serious debate. ![]() 2019-07-03 07:10:53pm (post #6544) |
fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 05:57:25pm (post #6543) |
phsc ![]() Not only ILI-ESE but also LII-SLE being accurate too, as well as the fact they were close, not able to stay together in a room and don't kill each other yet that they were probably friends, may I mention that I do not see me as able to be close to a SEE at all mostly for long periods of time, and may I also mention that collectivism and individualism aren't neglected by Stirner, the general concept of the union of egoists is still a form of collectivism, which could turn into a government, the focus is on coersion, egoism also doesn't neglect collectivism by definition, it is just putting you > collective but then if you think about it, you can be an egoist who believes that things will be better or you will be happier if others are happy which achieves altruism trough egoism: I will be happy if others are happy. Also there is another thing you're ignoring, time, I will use an example, the austrian school of economics, but you could probably also do it with the chicago one, if you take it's origins, and trace it to modern times, you will see that the liberty and individual freedom aspect of it grew with time, I don't really know any anarchists from Kant's time to be honest. But then, let's think about functions, Se polr, who else had it? I believe Proudhon was an EII (in your articles you also say he was one too), and he was also an anarchist, and the very similar to LII type ILE is well known for being anarchists, Bakunin, Rothbard, and then we have Chomsky who is LII, of course they are not similar to Stirner in their philosophy and how they achieve their results, also even then, why not ILE like Teru said? again I don't see how Stirner valued Se and Fi, and just because many LIIs didn't achieve something, it does not exclude the possibility that one did, I mean Stirner is also 5w4 which is a different thing from the 1w9 Kant and the 5w6 Hayek, etc. ![]() 2019-07-03 04:45:55pm (post #6542) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 07:12:54am (post #6541) |
fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST![]() ![]() 2019-07-03 03:38:36am (post #6540) |
phsc ![]() not being moral implies that he does not have a moral value, right? thus he has to reject all moral values for himself, which is what I said. I also mentioned you didn't read him but I didn't mention you didn't know him personally so I guess it's valid but it isn't a strawman, sophist. ![]() 2019-07-02 08:51:17pm (post #6539) |
Teru Mikami Are you intuitive or do you follow the state? ![]() ![]() 2019-07-02 08:34:00pm (post #6538) |
phsc ![]() Teru and me had a small talk about Stirner's type, twice, Teru didn't read Stirner though, but then I told him about what Stirner said and with his previous knowledge on what he heard about him and what I told about him he achieved ILE and I LII, and here is why: Also Diobono if you didn't leave the server you could've taken part on it, also does this still apply or did you actually read him? As much as Ti ego seems quite ridiculous for a philosopher who isn't that rational or doesn't look for fairness, who isn't Descartes(didn't look for fairness but didn't focus on that) or Kant, while I believe Stirner does look for it in a interesting way, I think we should consider other functions too and don't go by stereotypes (ILI big individualistic dude), first of all, let's start with Se polr, I will use a few phrases from the following, I won't post the second link's description of Se polr which I find accurate because of how big it is but I might use small parts of Stratiyevskaya's description, but take a look at both, as much as he does use lots of Ni. http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LII_by_Stratiyevskaya http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Wikisocion_LII_composite Stirner puts a lot of emphasis on how things should not be coercitive, quoting Stratiyekvskaya "the LII does not tolerate any abuse and coercion over himself", to an certain extent that can even apply to things which aren't pure force, such as religion, he was also agaisn't nationalism which is a typical LII trait, he solves the lack of the state problem with the concept of the union of egoists, he also is agaisn't moral systems which is well simply Fi polr one could say, but then he isn't agaisn't them, he isn't immoral, yet amoral, he mentions that people will probably still be moral under the union of egoists. But a thing that makes me think ILI isn't accurate is maybe his relationship with people, his most famous drawing, was made by Friendrich Engels, as both of them and Karl Marx were part of the Die Freinen, and now we get to a interesting part: Stirner and Engels seemed to go quite well together, and Engels being an ESE, I do not really see how ILI and ESE would go together because their relationship doesn't go well because they don't value anything the other has and are good also in correlation with that making it the worst relation possible! another interesting thing is that Engels agreed with Stirner's egoism and that it could be used to achieve communism, but then we have critics to Stirner in The German Ideology, Marx criticizing him the most I would say, I find interesting that, his relationship with Marx could not be good because it could be a supervisor relation, one being able to say it is the second worst relation possible, Marx called Stirner a "petty bourgeois individualist intellectual". We have this poem made by Engels on Stirner: "Look at Stirner, look at him, the peaceful enemy of all constraint. For the moment, he is still drinking beer, Soon he will be drinking blood as though it were water. When others cry savagely "down with the kings" Stirner immediately supplements "down with the laws also." Stirner full of dignity proclaims; You bend your willpower and you dare to call yourselves free. You become accustomed to slavery Down with dogmatism, down with law." One could say that saying "Down with dogmatism" doesn't fit LII, but casual reminder Kant said this about Spinoza: "Spinoza’s metaphysics was a prime example of dogmatic rationalism that lacked all justification as a valid metaphysical method." For ILE, Teru said that him not being moral is a thing that could be Fi polr! but I kind of explained how I could see role Fi working here, Stirner also talks about how what he writes is more of a point of view and not an absolute truth too, but I think this could also affect LII to a certain extent, or ILI too. But I also see a few problems with Se polr, such as the fact a LII wouldn't really like this: "Whoever knows how to take, to defend, the thing, to him belongs property." "What I have in my power, that is my own. So long as I assert myself as holder, I am the proprietor of the thing" Which could indicate valuing Se? but I still believe that he didn't value Se because of how he talks about coercion being terrible, and to a certain extent indirectly arbitrariness, since the use of force does define who owns something, another thing is his obvious use of Ni, the earlier parts of The Ego and It's Own are very Ni-ish I would say, but then ILE has 4D Ni and LII's many times still use Ni I would also say. over Te use, I don't see him that much as an utilitarian, I don't remember well but I think he even criticizes utilitarianism, also he doesn't talk about how to achieve anything he talks about, which could be Te ignoring? he is also agaisn't the typical revolution for other ideologies, and he actually did really like Hegel, the start of The Ego and It's Own shows that but not only that, he mentions Schiller and Goethe, which Hegel made lectures on which Stirner probably did go to and I did read said lectures because I found said book which also has another work by Hegel which I forgot on a used book store for an extremely cheap price and bought it and Hegel does mention Schiller and Goethe more than once which makes sense considering it is a work on aesthetics. May I mention that it has been a long time since I've read Stirner and of course it was in portuguese so some of it has been translated and said work might have been done poorly and some of it has been googled so I could see if what I was saying is actually true, fun fact, he translated The Wealth of the Nations by Adam Smith and Traité d'économie politique by Say. Am I am completely open minded for Stirner as ILI I just don't see why. ![]() 2019-07-02 04:33:34pm (post #6537) |
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