Arthur Schopenhauer ~ MBTI, Enneagram, and Socionics Personality Type

Arthur Schopenhauer ~ MBTI, Enneagram, and Socionics Personality Type

Arthur Schopenhauer

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ennea

variant

socio

psycho

INFJ 10

5w4 12

1w9 1

sp/sx 7

so/sp 1

ILI 14

ESI 1

LII 1

LEVF 4

VELF 1

LEFV 1

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public myers-briggs votes

(23/09/08 10:24) rock and roll: INFJ

(22/08/26 23:34) GIJOEBusta Cap: INFJ

(21/03/27 17:06) Neuro-Gizmo: INTP

(21/01/02 07:12) Helvetica: INTP

(20/12/20 21:42) bibliology: INFJ

(20/05/24 18:26) fleetingpetals1: INTP

(20/05/11 09:37) Thyssen: INTx

(20/02/25 15:20) Jacobus: INFJ

(19/06/13 06:38) Diobono: INTP

(19/04/20 01:39) Taco110: INFJ

(21/03/27 21:29) Tman: INJ

(20/05/25 08:59) tch: INTP

(18/07/13 06:30) fg: INTP

public function votes

(23/09/08 10:24) rock and roll: INFJ

(21/03/27 17:06) Neuro-Gizmo: INFJ

(21/01/02 07:10) Helvetica: INFJ

(20/05/11 09:37) Thyssen: INFJ

(20/02/25 15:20) Jacobus: INFJ

(19/04/20 01:39) Taco110: INFJ

(19/04/20 01:06) tman: INFJ

(19/01/30 14:13) tch: INFJ

(18/06/17 06:05) fg: INFJ

public enneagram votes

(25/06/29 15:32) Woll Smoth: 5w4

(23/09/08 10:24) rock and roll: 5w4

(22/08/26 23:34) GIJOEBusta Cap: 5w4

(21/03/27 17:06) Neuro-Gizmo: 5w4

(21/01/02 07:10) Helvetica: 5w4

(20/05/11 09:37) Thyssen: 5w4

(20/02/25 15:20) Jacobus: 5w4

(20/02/03 22:03) bibliology: 5w4

(19/10/02 01:48) Lol: 5w4

(19/06/13 06:38) Diobono: 5w4

(19/04/20 01:39) Taco110: 5w4

(19/04/19 16:53) tman: 5w4

(18/06/17 06:06) fg: 1w9

public instinctual variant votes

(22/08/26 23:34) GIJOEBusta Cap: sp/sx

(21/03/27 17:06) Neuro-Gizmo: sp/sx

(21/01/02 07:10) Helvetica: sp/sx

(20/05/11 09:37) Thyssen: sp/sx

(20/02/25 15:20) Jacobus: so/sp

(20/02/03 22:03) bibliology: sp/sx

(19/04/20 01:39) Taco110: sp/sx

(20/07/28 13:55) Tman: sp/sx

public tritype® votes

(21/03/27 17:06) Neuro-Gizmo: 541

(21/01/02 07:10) Helvetica: 541

(20/02/25 15:20) Jacobus: 541

(19/10/02 12:42) Diobono: 549

(19/06/27 19:28) tman: 541

(19/06/27 02:37) fg: 514

public sociotype votes

(22/08/26 23:34) GIJOEBusta Cap: ILI

(22/04/05 00:57) Woll Smoth: ILI

(21/03/27 17:06) Neuro-Gizmo: ILI

(21/01/02 07:10) Helvetica: ILI

(20/05/24 18:26) fleetingpetals1: ILI

(20/05/11 09:37) Thyssen: ILI

(20/02/03 22:03) bibliology: ILI

(20/01/19 20:24) zazu: ILI

(19/07/24 21:53) Phantom: ILI

(19/06/27 19:31) tman: ILI

(19/05/08 14:47) Avalonia: ILI

(19/01/03 23:38) AuÅ¡ra AugustinaviÄiÅ«tÄ—: ESI

(18/11/13 06:04) echidna1000: ILI

(18/06/17 06:06) fg: ILI

public psychosophy votes

(21/03/27 17:06) Neuro-Gizmo: LEVF

(20/05/24 18:26) fleetingpetals1: LEVF

(20/03/01 11:29) Thyssen: LEVF

(20/02/25 15:20) Jacobus: VELF

(19/10/22 13:12) Diobono: LEVF

(21/06/22 15:54) Tman: LEFV

public hexaco votes

(20/05/11 09:37) Thyssen: HEXACO

fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST

Schopenhauer's negation of will is anti V first.

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2020-03-01 10:05:16am (post #7745)

Tman INTP 5w4/1w9/4w5 Sx/Sp ILI

I still think it's posible that schopenhaur has L 1st, becuse I tend to think of it involving rules and gernal understanding of abstract consepts as much as it dose the primacy of logic. Schophaur may not have been a tradtional epistomolgist or logicain, but he did seem to think what hope there was for man lay in understanding the world, to move past our desires as far as we could (which wasn't much.)

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2020-02-29 09:58:54pm (post #7744)

Tman INTP 5w4/1w9/4w5 Sx/Sp ILI

Ah, google trnaslate, that explains it. Alright, you've at least convinced me he isn't V 4th. I still reamin unconvinced he's V 1st, but I think V 3rd makes sense.

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2020-02-29 09:54:38pm (post #7743)

Jacobus INFJ 4w5 EIE

The "source" was from the site of the creator of psychosophy. He wrote those words, albeit run through Google Translate.

1L has nothing to do with "intellectual elitism". 1L is simply about valuing pure reason above all else, which Schopenhauer clearly does not. A 1L philosopher would be more along the lines of Aquinas, Spinoza, or Kant. Elitism of all kinds is V related. An LEFV is going to be exactly as humble and childlike as every other 4V. At this point it's more about you having a basic lack of knowledge about the system.

"The conclusion, natural for Augustine's 1st Logic, follows from this conclusion: "Reasonable vision is not mistaken," although his own life gave many examples of the deepest error of the mind.

"Augustine" itself is a sweet, timid, pensive man without any serious claims in personal and public life. He does not show high hopes and, if any, rarely justifies them. In any case, apart from Augustine himself, only Darwin comes to the memory of representatives of the same type. Moreover, the success of Darwin was a pleasant surprise both for those around him and for himself. Without flirting at all, Darwin wrote: "It is truly amazing that a man of such modest abilities as I could have a significant impact on the views of the people of science in a number of significant issues.""

1
2020-02-29 07:59:02pm (post #7742)

Tman INTP 5w4/1w9/4w5 Sx/Sp ILI

That isn't to mention your sources sudo mystical nonesens rambelings about "moon men", srsl, what is up with that?

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2020-02-29 07:24:40pm (post #7741)

Tman INTP 5w4/1w9/4w5 Sx/Sp ILI

Some of the ideas make sense, but I wouldn't place to much trust in this source. To type Keirkguard as VELF is clearly wrong; as you said yourslef "A 3V individual may overvalue Will (Nietzsche being an example), but their true nature will always shine through. A sense of inadequacy or insecurity will still be there." Kieirkguards enetire philosphy is based on being a gaint worry wart about ideas you and only you could recognize as true, based on subejcetive emotinal standards (E 1st.)

Also, I view my comment aobut F last and pesmisim as somewhat tangetnal to my main point about the difrince inbtween L 1st "eltiestism" and V 1st and 3rds worship of the abilty to inact change in the world.

Edit: Now that I think about it, V 1st don't so much "worship" the ability to cause change as much as they simply stand there ground, and try and take charge of there own lives.

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2020-02-29 07:23:27pm (post #7740)

Jacobus INFJ 4w5 EIE

"For myself, I also call 4th Physics the "moon man." Indeed, the “lazy person” has some mysterious connection with the moon. “You breathe in the sun, I breathe in the moon,” Akhmatova admitted. I can only assume that the feeling of an internal connection with the moon in 4th Physics arises from their energetic relationship. Just as the moon shines weak, only with reflected light, so the “lazy person”, according to the law of the Fourth Functions, is only a reflection of higher, autonomous physical energetics.

The 4th Physics in itself is a born decadent, in the literal sense of the word (“decadence” - “decline”). A sense of weakness in the physical principle in itself has been living in the “lazy person” since birth, however, it does not bother him much. Another thing is that the feeling of early decrepitude that is usual for 4th Physics in young years, sometimes, strangely contrasts with a fresh, healthy appearance, introducing confusion and bewilderment into the environment."

"I don’t want to scare anyone, but 4th Physics is more prone to suicide than anyone else. For her, the idea of suicide is not a pose, as for 3rd Physics, but something ordinary, something that regularly pops up in the mind, without causing either horror or disgust in response. The thought of suicide is the first for 4th Physics and, strange as it may seem, a normal reaction to conflicts, problems, inconveniences of life. Actually, to begin the solution of arising difficulties by disabling the Fourth Function in general in the character of a person, it is therefore hardly surprising that, having found himself in a difficult position, the “lazy person” is in a hurry to soap the rope first.

From the side, such an action looks heroic, as happened with the suicide of Socrates, but in essence there is nothing heroic in voluntarily disabling what is least valued. This should be remembered by each owner of the 4th Physics, before pulling the trigger. The idea of suicide is a normal “lazy” whim, and one should not rush to give in to her first, false urge."

"There is another external sign of 4th Physics. This is sadness. which is more often than other feelings read in the eyes of the "lazy person". 4th Physics is born and dies with a sense of the initial tragedy of being, with a sense of trouble. “You know, sadness is something that is close to me” (Gauguin), “Only with grief do I feel solidarity” (Brodsky). Expectation of a catastrophe, bad forebodings are typical for 4th Physics, and the words “nightmare”, “horror”, “sadness”, “longing” are favorite in her dictionary."

"It doesn’t at all follow from Akhmatova’s purely external allergy to all sorts of manifestations of high arrogance that people of her type avoid serious intellectual pursuits. Not at all. An example of such representatives of the "Achmatian" genus as Schopenhauer and Kierkegaard shows not only the predisposition of this type to philosophy, but also which philosophy can confess them. Of course, skepticism is at the forefront of the "Akhmatov" philosophical system. The basis of the universe is thought to be devoid of rational brakes, the brainless World Will, which, with childish stupidity, drags an individual doll into the bumps of life, and after playing enough, casts oblivion into oblivion. Schopenhauer considered this world the worst of the worlds and called his philosophy of "philosophy of pessimism." Which is very suitable for the whole "Akhmatovsky" family, experiencing a chronic feeling of loneliness and sadness. Law, only the Schopenhauer speculation of despair (1st Will + 4th Physics) can correspond to the Akhmatov mournful muse. Live, I think, Akhmatova and Schopenhauer at the same time, they would make a good couple."

0
2020-02-29 07:00:45pm (post #7739)

Tman INTP 5w4/1w9/4w5 Sx/Sp ILI

What aobut 4 F would make someone fatlistic? Schophaur did view himself as elite, but only as an inteltical elite. There are some who can better understand the nature of the world, and may even be able to find ways to make there lives bearible, but none are able to escape there fate. A V 1st might take this as a chalange, to try and overcome. Schophuar simply submits to the nature of univers. Ultimtly, even our good deeds are not even due to oursleves,

"Whatever folly men commit, be their shortcomings or their vices what they may, let us exercise forbearance; remembering that when these faults appear in others, it is our follies and vices that we behold. They are the shortcomings of humanity, to which we belong; whose faults, one and all, we share; yes, even those very faults at which we now wax so indignant, merely because they have not yet appeared in ourselves. They are faults that do not lie on the surface. But they exist down there in the depths of our nature; and should anything call them forth, they will come and show themselves, just as we now see them in others... In fact, the conviction that the world and man is something that had better not have been, is of a kind to fill us with indulgence towards one another. Nay, from this point of view, we might well consider the proper form of address to be, not Monsieur, Sir, mein Herr, but my fellow-sufferer, Socî malorum, compagnon de miseres!"

Ultimtly I think the intaluicaual elitims is best explained by L 1st. It's not that some poeple have supiroier wills, but that some people have supeireier abilty to understand just how screwed they were.

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2020-02-29 06:02:55pm (post #7738)

Jacobus INFJ 4w5 EIE

Frankly, tman, that's entirely wrong. 4V isn't pessimistic or fatalistic, that's 4F. 4V is submissive and easy-going. Schopenhauer clearly viewed himself as a genius and a lone struggler, which is completely opposite to a 4V individual, who would wish to lose himself in the group. 2V and 4V are diplomatic and egalitarian, although in clearly different ways. 1V and 3V are elitist, to put it simply. Schopenhauer's philosophy was nothing if not elitist, and he saw himself among that elite.

As to asserting will, Schopenhauer certainly tried to dethrone Hegel as the dominant philosopher of his day. He fully expected that he would become a world-famous philosopher. Kierkegaard (the other philosopher explicitly typed by Afanasyev as being VELF) rejected celebrity to a degree (although he did not wish to die anonymous), but this was partly due to a belief that a method of indirect communication was required to express the full meaning and intent of his works, and partly due to a feeling of uniqueness and superiority to the bourgeois Danish literary world. So while their actions were apparently opposite, both assumed a position of superiority to the masses. Not equality, not inferiority.

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2020-02-29 12:31:59am (post #7736)

Tman INTP 5w4/1w9/4w5 Sx/Sp ILI

As far as I understand it, someone whos V first is most likly going to place an emphaeises on taking charge, and aserting your will to shape the world. Schopehuar didn't really think that at all. He seemed to view life as a hopless strugle, where we are all destened to lose,

“Human life must be some kind of mistake. The truth of this will be sufficiently obvious if we only remember that man is a compound of needs and necessities hard to satisfy; and that even when they are satisfied, all he obtains is a state of painlessness, where nothing remains to him but abandonment to boredom. This is direct proof that existence has no real value in itself; for what is boredom but the feeling of the emptiness of life? If life—the craving for which is the very essence of our being—were possessed of any positive intrinsic value, there would be no such thing as boredom at all: mere existence would satisfy us in itself, and we should want for nothing.”

Ultimitly, undder Schopehuaur, our "indivual will" isn't empahized. In fact, he dennys it exists, the only real will is the "will to life" which moves through us for it's own ends.

“Think what you're doing! When you say I, I, I want to exist, it is not you alone that says this. Everything says it, absolutely everything that has the faintest trace of consciousness. It follows, then, that this desire of yours is just the part of you that is not individual - the part that is common to all things without distinction.”

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2020-02-28 10:39:27pm (post #7735)

Jacobus INFJ 4w5 EIE

In psychosophy, the 1st function more-or-less goes unquestioned. While Schopenhauer's life-denialism may seem contrary to 1V, he's still granting Will/Volition utmost primacy as the metaphysical foundation of the world. A 3V individual may overvalue Will (Nietzsche being an example), but their true nature will always shine through. A sense of inadequacy or insecurity will still be there. With LEVF specifically, the individual will still be loyal to reason even after an ultimate realization that reason is finite and fallible (as in the case of Pascal himself). Schopenhauer didn't seem to show either of these traits. He could be moody and indecisive, but when he made a decision he didn't question himself and often came off as arrogant and judgmental in his relations with others. He seemed to have a firm belief in the weakness of human logic, and his placement of it as being secondary to and produced by the Will is definitely notable. His siding with Goethe against the scientific establishment and his opposition to Hegel (and by extension academia in general) definitely fits with 3L's purported tendency to take controversial "devil's advocate" positions.

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2020-02-28 06:11:11pm (post #7734)

Thyssen ILI

Not A Lurker Anymore

I mean, that could just be a way of admitting to 3V.
People who are 3V can hyperfocus on their lack of V, thus(especially in later life, as you've learned to mature from your struggles in an area) starting to see their insecure function as something valued due to their lack of ability or insecurity in the area.
I'm not sure on Schopenhauer's psychosophy, but I'm just asking: Why wouldn't that be a way of compensating for an insecurity?
Due to the large consensus on ILI(which I'm not saying IS 100% correct, rather something to definitely consider), that quote could be a lack of(yet a strong liking and value) of Se?
IDK, you could be correct, but just something to consider.

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2020-02-28 05:17:22pm (post #7733)

Thyssen ILI
Not A Lurker Anymore

0
2020-02-25 03:57:56pm (post #7731)

Jacobus INFJ 4w5 EIE

"… the will is what is real and essential in man, whereas the intellect is only the secondary, the conditioned, and the produced …": 1V, 3L

He was notoriously moody, and greatly valued art, music and literature; he infamously championed a sort of life-denialism and had a low opinion of sexuality and money: 2E, 4F

0
2020-02-25 03:19:01pm (post #7730)

Tman INTP 5w4/1w9/4w5 Sx/Sp ILI

Thanks, that’s what I was trying to say! In this case “take a back seat” is most likely due to hopeless.

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2019-10-17 07:00:04pm (post #7254)

Jacobus INFJ 4w5 EIE

Afanasyev (the creator of psychosophy) actually uses Schopenhauer as an example of VELF philosophy in his description of the type. I'm not well read enough on Schopenhauer to decide for myself, but it's something to consider.

I believe V last can be more accurately considered as preferring to "take the backseat" in life. Not necessarily being a conscious follower, but preferring that others forge the path for you.

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2019-10-17 03:51:43pm (post #7253)

Tman INTP 5w4/1w9/4w5 Sx/Sp ILI

So far as I can tell, it seems like willpower last has to do with not “pushing back” when you encounter hardships. Sound like someone we know? Combined with his depressed, isolationist tendcies, and you have yourself a pretty solid argument for LEFV.

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2019-10-17 01:26:18pm (post #7252)

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