I don't know, this is difficult because 9's withdraw by minimizing their needs to maintain their status, whereas 4's withdraw to seek attention for being unique and mysterious(and also to get away from superficial bullshit). I suppose they're both other-oriented in different ways. As a 594 sp/sx though I must say, I can't really imagine being much more withdrawn and detached. I feel like a strong 4 would just give me more feelings and a greater drive to fit in or be something to someone. My 9 makes me more carefree and indifferent, live and let live. I don't care about that stuff or get social anxiety as much.

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To be fair, I could see a self-preserving 4 being more withdrawn than a self-preserving 9 but the need to be validated is still there.

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I'm not equating anything. Why do you think 4 is in the shame triad?

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I can see the dissociation for enneagram 9 as an argument for introversion, why wouldn't 4s dissociate as well though and "if unhealthy", oh what a nice condition, resort to doing nothing but observe themselves obsessively for the sake of an internal self-image

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you cannot just equate identity with social identity just because that's the only way you can relate to it. 9 is a much more compliant and less self-centered type and thus more extroverted

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There's a reason sp is countertype for the heart triad and not for the gut.

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Perspective though, without connection 9's completely disassociate and become remote from everything(external and feeling-related). In contrast, 4s tend to withdraw from pain which is a reactionary response. I suppose it depends on how you define withdrawn but if you're being affected by something external, that's a connection to the outside world which isn't something I would consider as withdrawn. Fear lacking identity is shame-oriented and less self-preserving whereas fear of separation is more self-preserving, isn't it? (searching for validation and attention from others. sp = no match)

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4 is more introverted than 9, compare their fears and shit, 9's holy love shit is pretty E and their general points of focus are overall less introverted as well

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INTJ schizoid chad w asperger's but also lots of muscles

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